If there is no God, murder isn't wrong. You may think it's wrong, but how do you know it's wrong? As Dennis Prager explains, without God, all morality is mere opinion.
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Do you believe that good and evil exist?
The answer to this question separates Judeo-Christian values from secular values.
Let me offer the clearest possible example: murder.
Is murder wrong? Is it evil? Nearly everyone would answer yes. But now I’ll pose a much harder question: How do you know?
I am sure that you think that murder is wrong. But how do you know?
If I asked you how you know that that the earth is round, you would show me photographs from outer space, or offer me measurable data. But what photographs could you show, what measurements could you provide, that prove that murder or rape or theft is wrong?
The fact is...you can’t. There are scientific facts, but without God there are no moral facts.
In a secular world, there can only be opinions about morality. They may be personal opinions or society’s opinion. But only opinions. Every atheist philosopher I have read or debated on this subject has acknowledged that if there is no God, there is no objective morality.
Judeo-Christian values are predicated on the existence of a God of morality. In other words, only if there is a God who says murder is wrong, is murder wrong. Otherwise, all morality is opinion.
The entire Western world – what we call Western Civilization – is based on this understanding.
Now, let me make two things clear.
First, this doesn't mean that if you don't believe in God, you can’t be a good person. There are plenty of kind and moral individuals who don’t believe in God and Judeo-Christian values. But the existence of these good people has nothing – nothing – to do with the question of whether good and evil really exist if there is no God.
Second, there have been plenty of people who believed in God who were not good people; indeed, more than a few have been evil – and have even committed evil in God’s name. The existence of God doesn't ensure people will do good. I wish it did. The existence of God only ensures that good and evil objectively exist and are not merely opinions.
Without God, we therefore end up with what is known as moral relativism – meaning that morality is not absolute, but only relative to the individual or to the society. Without God, the words “good” and “evil” are just another way of saying “I like” and “I don’t like.” If there is no God, the statement “Murder is evil” is the same as the statement “I don't like murder.”
Now, many will argue that you don't need moral absolutes; people won’t murder because they don't want to be murdered. But that argument is just wishful thinking. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao didn’t want to be murdered, but that hardly stopped them from murdering about a hundred million people.
It is not a coincidence that the rejection of Judeo-Christian values in the Western world – by Nazism and Communism – led to the murder of all these innocent people.
It is also not a coincidence that the first societies in the world to abolish slavery – an institution that existed in every known society in human history – were Western societies rooted in Judeo-Christian values. And so were the first societies to affirm universal human rights; to emancipate women; and to proclaim the value of liberty.
For the complete script, visit https://www.prageru.com/videos/if-there-no-god-murder-isnt-wrong
There is no Objective morality even if there is a god. Even if you believe god exists you cannot prove that he exists, therefore you cannot prove that his "moral facts" were made true by god and therefore those moral facts are simply opinion.
If there is a God, how is murder wrong? Beacuse your eighter sending a good person to heaven or a bad person to hell. Is it beacuse God just said that murder is wrong?
You know, killing jews is right, beacuse Hitler said so.
At this point your ofcorse saying that God is ultimately good. So good that he still tortures people by hell. And studies have shown that better prisons with education make it less likely for you to go back there once your released. A perfect being should know that. Punishments are for people to learn. How do you kearn if your punished forever? Hell acompliches nothing.
Also, no proof for God.
Her message is unclear since every theist is thelling different stuff, who do i listen to? And why?
Murder is wrong beacuse everybody has the right to live, beacuse most of us wanna live. And we have no right to take what is not ours. These things exist, even when there is no God to thell it to you. And if you have readed my comment this far, don't just ignore it. Im not thelling you that your God is not real. Im simply saying that atheists have morals.
Is that person retarded? Sorry, but a normal person cannot be that naive!
How I can reason that murder is bad thing? That I can't because I do not have a photography? Pfffft
Of course murder is bad, since it hurts someone! I learned all my life that I do not want to get hurt and that usually when I do something bad to someone else that I pay some penalty. I have _learned_ that murdering someone is bad, since I was brought up in a society by caring parents. I do not need an imaginary fairy tale magician sitting on a fluffy cloud to tell me that!
This guy is to ridiculous!
For the people who are commenting on this video saying oh its common sence that murder is wrong or this guy is a socio path your not getting the point if there is no god murder isnt truly wrong
and he's clearly got you on that and your response is basically eat a dick sandwich what he's saying is there's no true morality with no ultimate authority he even said this in the video that oh hey even if you don't believe in god you can still be good but yes it is clear that with no god murder is ultimately not wrong nothing is wrong without ultimate authority that is the argument
I value my life, I don't want to be killed.
Therefore I assume you wouldn't like to be killed or others may not want you killed. It's that simple.
But before you get into me look at yourself.
Are you saying objectively in your religion killing is wrong?
That is not a true statement.
Do you support the death penalty in certain circumstances?
Do you support god 'justly' killing millions?
Do all christians agree with you on this topic?
If not, it Is not objective.
These philosophers you mention are weak minded.
Yes. Morality is not objective. Morality is opinion. But we all agree with our opinion that murder is bad. We don't like murder. So we made it illegal.
You do realize that the abolishment slavery, women empowerment, and civil rights only happened because the opinions of those things were getting popular? If morality was objective, those would have happened since the beginning of time.
yAHWEH is the most evil, hypocritical, and vile character in all human legend.
He says not to kill, but slaughters millions himself on a whim.
He proudly admits to once having genocided every living being on earth, except this dude and his family who apparently he had a hardon for. But its ok because he exterminated all life in a righteous way or something.
He says not to lie, yet lies more often than a presidential candidate.
He claims he knows everything yet makes more mistakes than a low-income family with no access to birth-control.
He is a fool who blames his creations for not doing what he created them to do. The cosmic equivalent of destroying your keyboard when your coding is shit (lel git gud fgt)
He is racist, homophobic, amoral, hypocritical, genocidal, psychopathic, (you get the idea).
There is nothing remotely moral about the “gOD” yAHWEH. He is far more evil than any human could hope to be even if they tried for a hundred lifetimes. He makes Stalin and Pot look like the Pillsbury Doughboy
This is awkward, considering a personal deist/libertarian leaning, but since I hate myself and exorcize that feeling via youtube comments. So.... Here I go!
1. From the onset, a MAJOR flaw comes from assuming that "religion", "morals" or "God" only exist in Jud-Christian beliefs. Failing to even address other older (and often more valid) religious doctrines outside of Mr. prager's favorites list truly cheapened the message.
2. If by admission that secular people can be moral, and religious people can be immoral, then haven't you kinda demonstrated the error to your own argument???
3. For "The west" & its allegedly superior powers of morality to abolish slavery &/or any other cited atrocities, they first had to be practicing the embrace of the same... Typically for a hundred-ish years or more before good ol' selective morality set in.
4. WRONG on the assertion that all people/societies have owned slaves and hated women... Etc... To even propose such drivel can only reveal the depth of empire-centric thinking.
5. Morals MUST exist without religions because religions are a "FAITH BASED" aspects of life.... Despite the feelings of certainty, or dishonest claims of "knowing", individuals must come to, then maintain the ideological persistency in the midst of making a moral assesment. This means, invariably that (even with a diety of Pragur's fancy) the obscurity of what the laws are, as well as God's uncertain existence/nature, places everyone in the secular role of arbiter.
Lastly, this is mostly a sime plea to work on viable arguments
I'd say the opposite is true, because if the Christian God exists, then heaven exists, so if what we describe as endless paradise exists, how is murder wrong? After all, you are just going there sooner.
Moral relativism is a theory of morality that states an absolute truth by saying that there is no absolute truth. Saying “There is no absolute truth” is stating an absolute truth. It sounds pretty self refuting to me. (Not trying to attack just trying to hopefully give you another perspective)
What a lot of people do not understand is that atheism is both a phenomenon of the left AND the right! So all these losers in the comments could be RIGHT-WINGERS!!! To any God-fearing people who may be reading this, if that doesn't scare you, nothing does.
Morality is not an opinion in atheist literature,and it's not "created" by a god (an extremely angry one too) of morality. Morality is human's natural understanding of pain and desire to avoid it. That also means not putting other people on harm's way. A person raised in an ordinary and healthy environment would point that murder,theft and rape is wrong without someone telling them.
Im am an Atheist and dont believe in objektive morality , and i get my morality Like this : we assume that human well being is good and that we shall do Things that are good . In conclusion we should do Things that are Help human wellbeing and shouldnt do Things that Stop human wellbeing . Since murder conflicts human wellbeing , we shouldnt do it . Now Its a fact that i Chose to act by this morality and at any Point in time could choose to do something that is evil by this Definition of morality without a huge feeling of guilt and thats Something im struggeling with. My whole Point is actually that it doesnt matter wether morality is objective or not , as long as people have the Same opinion on whats right and whats wrong . I hope you could understand that Kind of.. If you want to ask something feel free to do so and
Have a nice day
Why does he specify Judeo-Christian values? If you want to attack atheism, that’s one thing, but at least take the side of theism, it’s opposite. Rather than acting as a sect of theism, act as a theist. Don’t exclude the majority of theists. That’s not cool
Here’s a simple answer.
If your an atheist who murders you are committing the ultimate crime, since you are taking away someone’s one shot at life, eternally, basically taking away everything for that person after you kill them. Sheer empathy alone should be enough not to do thos
If some one stole from you would feel wronged or negative ? They took it from you without asking. Without your permission. You either rightfully found the object, rightfully earned it or it was given to you. A life should be viewed the same. It's not yours to take.
+finalfantasy8911 but he was still atheist right from life to end. Just like he had a life from begining to outcome. It still wasn't his to take and that's why he killed himself. If no sarrow he wouldnt have punished himself or even felt a ounce of guilt. If your suggesting that this world shouldn't be institionalized by atheism....your right.
As it should be the same aswell for christianity. But in the end he committed suicide but He didnt get away with anything. His actions were the reason he saw an end to his.
As much as sad as it is.
There's always a cause and effect deciding a privilege or consequence. In this circumstance it was exile.
Again....didnt get away with much.
Just chose the consequence.
Adam lanza took the life of several kids by lodging a bullet in their heads, he then killed himself. In an atheist world, its even possible to get away with murder either by not getting caught, having government sanction to do such, or by committing suicide. So how can a "moral" atheist punish those in either of those categories?
if anyone is reading this comment just think the universe is way too big and earth is just a dot in a universe. it is said that earth is the mighty thing that god given his most importance., god created everything okay with this. and also he created us, for what purpose, why did he created us, he is boared off sitting, is there any business is going on to him by creating us... everything is why why why...... i believe in there is no GOD
Do the 'judeo christian values' actually come from the bible??
Having read the book and all the killing, raping and stealing ordered or commited by the judeo christian god, I'm a bit confused.
But surely prager has the answer. He is from a university after all.
Atheists claim they have evidence to disproof God...
No u don't..
Even the concepts in science happen in a particular way which can only be studied and somewhat altered but not changed..
E.g gravity:an apple falls downward..
electricity:current flows from a high potential voltags to a lower potential...
Cosmic bodies:the sun rises from the east and sets in the west...
who created this order of things that we happen to just have met...
And don't tell me the big bang...
I choose to believe a book claimed to be inspired by a higher intelligence that trust the findings of humans who didnt exist b4 the water,the land,the wind and the stars..
Put your chips where u want..
U can put yours in man..
I put mine in a higher form of intelligence who gives me all the answers I need
and that is that
What kills man is always his pride...
It is stupidly naive to believe u are the most intelligent being to exist
apparently, this christian thinks that everything god believes is unmoral, is moral in the eyes of an atheist
if the christian believes everything god says is moral, then the christian must believe that rapists have to marry their victims (Deutreonomy 22:28-29)
that somehow, marrying prisons of war was moral (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)
that somehow, destroying all that amalek had, to put death to both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey is moral (Samuel 15:3:)
is this really moral? if you dont think this is moral, then are you sure god is all good? would you still think it is moral only because it is the word of god?
A good portion of the argument is sound, but the conclusions drawn from it are certainly not. The conclusion “The death of judeo-Christian values should frighten you” is simply illogical. Are there not other religions besides Christianity which believe in a god with object moral rights and wrongs? Are there really no objective good and evils without a god in the first place? Not exactly. Even if there is a god who is the source of morality, there is always subjective opinions and interpretations based from that.
At 3:38 You pretend as if the first societies to abolish slavery were rooted in judeo-Christian values. This is not really true. Yes, Britain was very early to outlaw slavery, but one must understand that they never had a need for it. The seeds of the area had to work tirelessly for food anyways. It’s not like they had much of a choice. Additionally, Japan abolished slavery in 1590 without being at all rooted in judeo-Christian values; America which was HEAVILY rooted in such values didn’t abolish slavery until 1865!
This particular video’s argument is perfectly sound up until 3:12. At that moment he states that the argument “objective moral reasoning can be achieve with the statement ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’” is unfounded because hitler and others thought they were being morally right, killing even though they didn’t want to be killed. In this case, I would argue that such people are being objectively immoral. When people commit murder, often times they fundamentally understand what they are doing is morally wrong. They do it anyways. Providing examples of objectively evil men doesn’t disprove the path for moral reasoning stated above.
“There can only be OPINIONS about morality...if there is no God, there is no objective morality...otherwise, all morality is opinion.”
Lol. Well, Mr. Prager...that’s exactly right! Yep, that’s EXACTLY what morality is.
But let me ask you a question: WHY does God say that murder is wrong? Does He say that murder is wrong BECAUSE murder is wrong? Or is it wrong BECAUSE God says it’s wrong.
If it’s the former, then morality DOES NOT require God!
If it’s the latter, then morality is exactly what Prager claims it WOULD BE without God. Morality is arbitrary. If everything that God does is good, and if everything that happens is according to God’s plan (which is ultimately good) then it’s not wrong to murder someone! It’s morally inconsequential, especially if the murderer can just ask God for forgiveness, and believe at the time of his/her death that Jesus performed miracles and God created the universe.
It’s not “Godly” to not murder. God murdered tons of people, including innocent women and children, and basically performed 4th trimester abortions on infants! He killed the children OF the slaves he was trying to free.
However, without God, then the non-believer can still have EMPATHY, and realize that if they murder someone, they end that person forever, taking away their memories and future existence. And could end THEIR OWN LIFE forever by spending the rest of their life in prison, and or feeling extreme guilt for the rest of their life.
If the law was the only thing keeping people from murdering, the world will be in complete anarchy..
People may just murder their competitors or those that are obstacles to them.
There are always limits to what the law can do without cooperation of society
Folk Aart U having a gun doesn't mean someone who wants to kill u can't kill u..
And it doesn't have to be in your house...
And u don't have to be ready...
So there is something else keeping humans in,if I may,a basic moral check
That's why we have guns. That's why self defense is allowed. Uncivilized cultures suffer because commerce can't even function due to all the stealing and violence. Ghettos are created by the moral degenerates that live in them.
Why would a god give a person a sexual orientation that has the person find little children sexually attractive, and then give that pedophile free will? Does god enjoy watching child rape? How moral is that?
Morals are opinion. Morals are simply what we call instincts that we get from evolution. It's better and more beneficial to the human race if people didn't kill others, so we don't kill others as an instinct. Same reason most people find babies cute, if we like what we're looking at we're not going to kill it or get rid of it, therefore continuing the human race. By saying that morals came from God because God said so is just begging the question which is a logical fallacy.
3:26 but Hitler was a Christian. He did everything in God's name, citing him in many of his speeches.
3:37 But in the Bible it says that slavery is allowed. Did those that freed the slaves go against the word of God?
This is not a argument. But a opinion.
All that disliked this video are either stupid, Nazi, comies or don't understand this video. I think most people are on the last one.
It a simple video.
This video only says that if God don't exsist. No objektiv evil or God exist. Does that mean we can't have god or evil? No it doesn't.
I don't nesseary agree with all but i agree that God set some rules of Good or Evil.
But we can still define moralty by one rule, The golden rule (sorry, if this is bad English. I am Norwegian so i don't speak English as much or wright it. ). Do as you wishes other people do to you.
I ain't going to hide that i belive in a God that created the universe. However, i don't belive any of the stupid theory about how the universe was created, Big Bang, 6 days. I belive we will never understand it or it never started and everything is Infinity.
The only thing we as humans do are making rules after what we can se.
But people need to be more tolerante, this video is a argument. So speak about it instead of what i have seen from the comments.
Morality is a social construct. If the group of society decides that murder is wrong, and specifies what counts as murder, then it is wrong. How does God decide morality and what is right and wrong? From what we see in the bible, especially the OT which fundamentalist seem to like a lot more than the NT, is that God is perfectly fine with killing children, destroying villages, and cursing his own people so are all of those things good? If that isn't the case God is a hypocrite.
Morality on religion serves as a threat. Do what this thing tells you or you're going to suffer forever. Murder is wrong because the book about a god said it was wrong and if you don't want to burn forever you won't do it.
Yet god has been invoked to justify murder human sacrifice and genocide
"Whats a few years on earth to an eternity in heaven"
But then if their is no good and no afterlife then when you have only this life and if you kill someone your current life is ruined by spending life in prison that's not even to mention that if their is no afterlife then when you commit murder you'd be ereasing everything that that person ever was and will ever be that alone is enough to keep people from killing because that will put on that much guilt yes I quoted the Dark Matter Channel God justifys everything even rape because it's part of God's plan witch is ultimately good yeah it seems if their is a god murder wouldn't be wrong
This video is made for the purpose of convincing people that are already on their side. They don't present a good argument for the opposition and wade through a sea of retardation to arrive at their dumb conclusion. Go ask Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, and, if he wasn't dead, Christopher Hitchens.
This is so painful that it should make people embarrassed to support Prager U.
First off, the comments section seems like a bunch of college kids who self-identify as "intellectuals" and still think that belief in "god" is uncool. Second, this video is not an in-depth treatise on morality and should be treated as intended which is simply an introduction to the beginning arguments on morality. The idea of absolute truth embodied in a transcendent ethic that provides objective reality is debatable but it is just that: debatable. Through an Aristotelian framework that is strengthened by Aquinas and others you can make a reasonable philosophical debate about absolute truth and the reality of good. The casual disregard for god and religion and the vitriol with which this video was met in the comments sections shows just how brainwashed many of us have become.
I know murder is wrong for I do not want to be murdered! Do not do unto others what you do not want to be done to you.
Confucius allready knew that.
And by the way, Judeo Christian values? How about the Hindu values? They too do not murder.
This video has a major logical flaw. Even God sanctions murder. In the Bible, He encourages his believers to commit murder to prove their faith to Him, tells his believers to commit genocide pretty regularly. He commits acts of genocide Himself, killing everyone in the but Noah and His family--even animals and babies. So, the larger question takes murder back into the secular space of "When is murder wrong?" If murder is wrong, then the death penalty is wrong--it is, engaging in War is wrong--it is, even if you're defending yourself--it is not. Self-defense is wrong--it is not. And to question any of these assertions you have to do some pretty clever mental gymnastics to call it something other than murder. I certainly don't need God to explain the differences.
God is OK with Slavery, too, and gives advice on how to do it correctly.
If murder is WRONG, why there's one of your videos wich supports death penalty in some cases?
But i remember that in the bible there are some cases where murder is RIGHT.
And if there are some cases in the bible ( and there are) your god is wrong.
You can't talk about morality when you support a murderer.
Because the bible is full murders made by god himself.
What I like Doris is how they think this god of theirs will punish people for using logic and reason, for their intellectual integrity, people who reject unsupported claims, and reward those who abandon logic and reason for comforting mythology.
To debunk this, all you have to do is look at what the God of Israel in the Old Testament allowed/condoned.
Leviticus 24:10-14 God orders the death of the son of an Israelite woman and an Egyptian man for blaspheming His name. This violates his free speech.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 A law in which a female rape victim is forced to marry her attacker.
2 Chronicles 15:13-14 The people of Israel took an oath to put to death anyone who doesn’t have faith in the God of Israel. Putting someone to death for not following a particular religion is clearly wrong.
I can’t explain where morality comes from, but the God of the Judeo-Christian bible certainly is NOT it.
nde Thierry. it depends on your definition of morality does it not? according to the god of the bible murder is just fine at times. other times, not so fine. seems pretty subjective to me. what if we define morality as behavior that is mutualistic or commensalistic in nature? under this standard or definition we can clearly observe what behavior is acceptable from that which is not. no need for a moral law giver. no need for someone to declare "by what standard". no need for interpreting what is right or wrong.
The law is a wonderful deterrent but it does not keep people from doing anything though, it punishes them after the fact. For example 4 to 5000 people get shot every year in Chicago due to the uncivilized animals that live there. Horrible places exist, many many of them and religion has proven itself to be an absolute failure at improving human behavior.
Folk Aart it's not uncommon that folks murder and get away with it?
So if I can find ways to escape the law,I can always murder.
If the law was the only thing keeping people from murdering, the world will be a horrible place my friend..
Actually the “Judah Christian rooted countries” were some of the last western civilizations to abolish slavery. America was the first to have women’s rights liberty etc and the reason this amazing country was created was to get away from the Christian rooted country that was oppressing them with their “moral absolutes” of Christian based countries like Great Britain and other European countries. Your facts are uttermost lies just like all of your “God” created videos.
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